Totally agree, hmj! Unfortunately, the County's philosophy has been and is "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"!...our same representatives (???) who long ago took it upon themselves to redefine the word illegal to make up for their lack of 'intestinal fortitude'...guts to address the issue appropriately and legally! Lumped into 'Smart Growth Program'?? Say what again!!!!! Give me a break! "Lack of Gonads Program' more like it!

At no point does this article mention illegal immigrants. Not all immigrants who come to this country enter illegally. It is a shame that those to words have become synonymous, however it is the American way to help those who enter our country seeking a better life. We've done it since the country became free of our British oppressors and we continue to do it because it is the neighborly thing to do, regardless of their race, nationality, religion, or gender.

Fact: having empathy for those who risk a hard life in a foreign country is equivalent to a lack of gonads.

Stop the flood - www.buildtheborderfence.com

"[Q]uarter of million dollars to support 400 people" only makes sense if you assume the cost of renovations would recur every year (which, obviously, it doesn't) or that no additional people in years to come will seek vocational training, language education, job placement assistance, etc. (which obviously doesn't make sense either).

Good grief. How many programs are out there for you, Mr. Unemployable. I'm so glad we're all paying for you to sit at home and spout your ignorance re: immigration, in general, and Casa, specifically. Stop being so angry at people who are actively educating themselves and seeking any job that'll pay. Instead, why don't you turn off Fox News and the hatred and try it out yourself?

http://silverspring.patch.com/articles/leggett-to-join-state-leaders-on-mission-to-india#comment_1942375 ?

jag & Frank:

I do not collect unemployment.

We've always had laws. Both laws that make it legal and illegal to enter this country.
Casa does not focus on illegal immigrants. Its focus is on immigrants. Specifically helping them find work, and learn English so that they can find their way in American society.

Al,
Don't think anybody was suggesting that "ALL" immigrants are here illegally. Got any concrete proof concerning that last sentence?

Peter,
Who wants to throw "legal" immigrants under the bus?

Jeff, I am objecting to the sentiment that CASA should not be funded because some of its beneficiaries are here illegally.

Kudos to you Sharon..........well said.

Sharon, we all agree on the difference. Where we may still disagree is that the way to fix this issue is NOT to punish hard-working, contributing PEOPLE who are here. Help Save Maryland and other groups are clearly anti-(all)-immigrant in their language and motivations, and despite their claims that they simply want to "enforce the laws". We have a law on the DREAM Act which they are directly attempting to undo. What they are actually about is PUNISHING and HURTING people at all costs--no matter the inhumane results on familiies and children, the future of young Americans and their education and contributions to society, no matter the terrible impacts on our economy in an already bad time, and no matter the loss to the most American tradition of welcoming the motivated and hungry "huddled masses" who are always a net positive to the country, and always have been.

Do you feel people who are undocumented here (another "distinction" many people don't understand is that MANY undocumented people have not broken any laws and are in a legal limbo) should all be deported? This disruption to families, our economy, and our society in most cases as a result of this option would do immense HARM to ALL OF US. There are legitimate pathways to citizenship for good contributing people who are in this boat. The rhetoric against these people is over-the-top, straightforward old-fashioned nativism. Ignoring motivations (e.g. hatred) out there is not going to move us forward either.

Doug, Seriously? The bleeding heart liberal rhetoric does not work in this discussion because we are not talking about people that are here legally or the long tradition of our great country welcoming the "huddled masses" that go through the legal road to citizenship. If they are "undocumented" they are illegal no matter how Gov. O'Malley or President Obama try to spin the new politically correct definition. I am friends with plenty of people who have come through the legal path to citizenship by immigrating to the US from places like Venezuela, Lebanon, Mexico, Poland, Guatemala, Russia, Nicaragua, Iran, Brazil, Iraq, Argentina, Israel, Columbia, and even Canada and each and every one of them has a legitimate reason to be just as against illegal immigration if not even more than natural born citizens. You and everyone else in this comment thread that is trying to defend Casa de Maryland or turn the attention away from the true issue of illegal immigration have no argument to stand on so you just keep trying to redefine the word illegal or completely ignore it all together. If Casa de Maryland had not printed and distributed brochures to illegal immigrants on how to circumvent the laws of our state and country even more than they already are just by being here illegally, I am sure people like me would have less of an issue with this grant. Problem is they did, they do, and they will continue to do so with the support of democrats that are breaking their oath of office.

You are correct, they don't recognize any problem. And Casa does break the law and should not be funded. While they may do some positive work, they know full well that they are also providing support to people in the country illegally. They and some wacky elected leaders that pander to them are part of the open borders crowd that think all people are entitled to move and live where they wish. They believe it is wrong for the United States to try to control the border. They don't respect our laws or culture and see no problem with a flood of impoverished people coming here ...... so welcome to Montgomery County.

PLEASE, hmj, PLEASE link to some facts supporting all those claims. It's one thing to have an opinion on facts, e.g. the cost/benefit of this grant application, while it's something completely different to just make up a bunch of stuff and pretend like it's accurate.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-migration-20111115,0,6585941.story

"Mexican census figures show that fewer Mexicans are setting out and many are returning — leaving net migration at close to zero, Mexican officials say. Arrests by the U.S. Border Patrol along the southwestern frontier, a common gauge of how many people try to cross without papers, tumbled to 304,755 during the 11 months ended in August, extending a nearly steady drop since a peak of 1.6 million in 2000."

What numbers constitute a flood?

"They don't respect our laws or culture"

What culture are you talking about?

Are you as outraged about casa de maryland providing aid to illegals as you are about private families/estates in MoCo hiring day laborers that are illegal?

No, I haven't. Is there some culture being disrespected then?

Stop playing coy and tell me what I'd see.

Seriously, hmj? Are you so uneducated on this issue that you don't know that the number of illegal immigrates in this country has dropped by over a million in the last few years alone? The "flood" is going the other way - out of America, not into America. Bet you also don't know that Obama is deporting more illegal immigrants than anyone before him - 400,000 a year. But hey, why let facts get in the way of your irrational and unsupported opinion.

The current US population is approx 309 million. 304000 people is less than 1% of that. Less than 1% of a population immigrating is a flood. I'll keep that in mind.

And yes Corbin, less than 1% is a flood if you put it into proper perspective. Less than 1% of the water on Earth flooded New Orleans after Katrina. Less than 1% of the water on Earth flooded Vermont and New Hampshire following Snowmageddon and Hurricane Irene. Less than 1% of the brush fires in North America actually cause any human deaths, but I would assume no one would casually sit back and do nothing to prevent these things from happening if they could. On the other hand Casa de Maryland actively promotes illegal activity and prints handouts showing illegal immigrants how to circumvent the laws. So yes, even $1.00 spent to support your alleged 304,000 per year is one too many in the eyes of the majority of tax payers in this state as well as across the country.

Corbin, if we go by your numbers less than .001% of the US population are serial killers so does that mean we should just ignore them too? Illegal activity is still illegal regardless of the percentage of people doing it.

Edited to remove typo and no tongue was in cheek when writing this comment, and Frank, if you can find evidence to prove otherwise I will willingly claim ignorance.

No. We shouldn't ignore them, but no one is going around saying we have a flood of serial killers inundating our population.

Your comparisons with actual floods are absurd to the point of ridicule. It's not the proportion of the source that's being drained, it's the proportion of the destination that's being flooded that defines a flood! That's why I compared the immigration rate to the population of The United States, not the population of Mexico. If 50% of my house is covered in water, I don't care that it's only .00000001% of the water in the planet covering it.

Also, I would have left it at what Frank said, but since you doubled down on your analogy.

You're seemingly equating the crimes of serial killers to the crime of illegal immigrants. Serial killing is the crime of planning murders of unsuspecting victims in a series. Illegal immigration is the risky prospect of leaving ones homeland and family for a life of perilous opportunity of possible economic benefit in a foreign land with consistent criminal status. One is truly heartless, and one is a difficult and risky personal sacrifice that contributes to complex social and economic conflicts. The moral equivalency of these is extremely dubious. You could have chosen countless other crimes: shoplifting, fraud, dine and dash, vandalism. But *you* chose serial killing for your analogy. I hope you can grasp how that is a form of dehumanizing people - people that shouldn't be lauded, but are still human.

Corbin, I am not dehumanizing anyone with my analogy. I am well aware of the severe difference between the two criminal acts. I chose serial killers because they make up one of the smallest percentages of criminals in the US and since you are trying to assert that because illegal immigrants make up such a small percentage compared to the total population they do not pose a problem. You argued that less than 1% does not equal a flood and I simply set out to prove that your argument does not hold water. (Pun intended) You can also sit there at your keyboard and type about how these people risk everything to come to the US but the one thing they do not risk is going through the legal process of coming here. It begs the question of why do they avoid the legal path to citizenship? Do they have something to hide? Would they be rejected for having a criminal record in their native country? Do they just not have the respect for our laws? We already know they do not care to join the millions of people who do come here legally in the proverbial "melting pot" so why should they be allowed to benefit from programs intended to support those that do come here legally and wish to better themselves to be a part of society.

All rhetoric aside on both ends of the argument, the one thing you and the other liberals in this thread cannot dispute is that an illegal act is still illegal regardless of the percentage of people doing it or how you try to spin it.

Yes, I see what you mean. It would seem that " jag " is having another bad hair day. Illegal immigrants, Casa cheerleaders, and people that profit from illegal activity will continue to cry foul and say there is no problem (or that it has gone away now). Law abiding citizens know better.

Lord in heaven you're something special, hmj. I'm the one with a bad hair day...since I'm not running around raving like a lunatic at invisible illegals overrunning America. If only I were a law abiding citizen I'd know better. Oh well. Guess I'll just go be a cheerleader, or something.

What a joke. Why don't you try and learn some facts (plenty of which have been posted). Right now you just give your side of the debate (a legitimate side of a legitimate debate) a bad name and it's a shame.

I'm sorry but once again playing the "hate" and "race" cards does not fly here. The only hatred or intolerance being promoted here is a hatred for people who blatantly break the law and people who carelessly enable them, and an intolerance for the tax dollars of hard working legal citizens, some of whom are immigrants and most are descendants of immigrants, being spent frivolously by our elected officials who swore to uphold the very constitution that illegal immigrants are violating. Illegal is still illegal regardless of race or nationality and people don't care if it is an illegal immigrant from Europe, Asia, Central America, or from Antarctica they do not want their tax dollars spent on supporting someone who is breaking the law. Plain and simple!

Casa cheerleaders and others here that support illegal immigration need to come clean. You have been outed at part of the open borders crowd. Admit there is a problem, stop lashing out at law abiding citizens, and you will start to feel much better about yourself and America. Stop the illegal activity and get on the right side of the law.

No Amnesty of any kind for any illegal alien.

Quit thinking illegals sob stories are better then American citizens sob stories Frank :)

I know Sharon. It just never fails to amaze me though............thanks for the chuckles!

"there are some who don't mind paying the enormous salaries of their representative for representative to introduce and pass bills/laws merely to have on the books while society has absolutely no problem with ignoring them. Attitude: laws were only made to be broken!"

If this is about enforcement, it's inconsistent. Many laws are broken all the time in our society because to actually enforce them would be near harassment and paralyzing. Speed Limits, Taxes on Private Transactions, Private Gambling. All these laws are ignored constantly - to implement them would waste Law Enforcement Official's time to focus on actual crimes that hurt people.

But let me know when you are demanding that any Government Contractors that have NCAA Office Pools no longer win those contracts, or your neighbors stop getting interest tax deductions on their mortgage when they hire the next door neighbor to mow the lawn, or we start stripping college students from receiving scholarships for getting speeding tickets.

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :-)

Amen to that, Termperance! Same here with my ancestors! At this point, upholding immigration laws is so screwed up that we may as well say "come one, come all. Under the fence & through the woods to Grandmother's house we go. But try to do it quietly so that nobody will know you're here!". Hummm! The US is a 'boat' where everyone is on one side (flooding to US suburban communities) and we wonder why we are sinking. The new 'Titanic'. And to the gentleman who turned this comment thread into 'religion & Christian charity' direction....Corporal Works of Mercy are beautiful (wish we all believed in them & practiced them but not reality) in principle but the reality of our society (with far more beings on it than just Adam and Eve, an apple tree & a serpent) demonstrates laws 'are' needed to keep balance and order in a 'growing population'.

Sharon, you appear to have completely misunderstood the sarcasm of my post, but that's not surprising.

Lol, there is a lot of stuff going over your head here, Sharon. Of course almost everything you're saying about apple trees and the Titanic is going over my head, so I guess we have that in common at least.

great comment

Sharon,

Way up above in this thread, I believe I said to somebody that the personal attacks would come. It's inevitable, it's SOP. Have a good one!

Because VA has so few illegal immigrants?? Feel free to do some research, Ivan. While your at it, feel free to show me some facts about how many illegals Casa de MD supports or how many laws they've broken. Or just take your taxes to VA - I'm sure you're extremely well educated and wealthy and it'll be a really big loss.

The number of illegals the state "has" is not what I was writing about. It is the state and county support of illegals with MY TAX MONEY that I can't stand.

I am pretty well educated. Have a PhD in a scientific discipline. And can show you my tax return with redacted names and ssn. You will be surprised since you seem to think that only limousine liberals of Potomac have wealth. They do but it is mostly made by their conservative parents and grandparents.
I am not surprise your are OK with your money going to illegals. You probably don't contribute much

Theresa Defino

4:38 pm on Sunday, December 4, 2011

The "cause" is not divided. The organization works to better the lives of Latinos in Montgomery County. PERIOD. No one should be against that. The organization has a long history of meeting needs and is NOT promoting, supporting, advocating or otherwise endorsing illegal immigration.******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Your post is not true. Casa de Maryland is an illegal alien advocacy group.

Teresa you have it backwards. All illegals are illegal to me. Illegal is not definied by race or nationality but liberals such as yourself seem to want to redefine it for some and not others. I do not care what country or continent an illegal immigrant is from they are still here illegally but if you listen to liberals they all seem to think Latin American illegal immigrants are deserving of special treatment that might not be offered to illegal immigrants from Europe or Asia. Does being from the same hemisphere somehow make certain people less illegal? NO

I grew up in Montgomery County and have watched it deteriorate from one of the crown jewel counties in the country to a liberal / socialist sanctuary that has not found a tax or social entitlement program it does not like. I am far from the first person to ever refer to it as the People's Republic of Montgomery County and I am certainly not going to be the last as long as democrats continue to keep the county headed down the same path it has been on for the past 20 years or more.

The illegal population in Maryland is not quite small. It is actually one of the highest percapita in the country according to recent reports. If we were living in Texas this would not even be an issue. You can continue to live in denial while those of us who passed on drinking the democrats blue Kool-Aid work to try to turn this car around in the right direction.

"Just" is right, the per capita rate of illegal immigrants in MD is high, either the 7th or 8th highest in the country, depending on whose numbers you use (FAIR or PEW). However, "all illegals are illegal" is a tautology. It contributes nothing to the conversation. All speeders are criminals as well. But, there isn't a hue and cry when driving schools open, even though the vast majority of their customers are going to graduate to lives of crime.

CASA is providing services to people, people who are Hispanic immigrants. One might question their focus on Hispanic immigrants, but Hispanics do constitute a plurality of Maryland's immigrants. CASA not checking their clients' papers is an issue of civil liberties and business sense (would you shop at a store that required you provide proof of citizenship?).

Peter, Either you did not read all the posts and are unaware of CASA's printed handouts that tell illegal immigrants how to circumvent the system, or you are just ignoring the facts and ducking the real issue. If CASA remained neutral and did nothing to support illegal immigration directly then I would have less of an issue with them receiving tax dollars to support their cause. The fact is and cannot be disputed that they have and will continue to directly support illegal immigrants and are in essence accessories after the fact. No one is saying they need to ask the people they serve to "show their papers" but if given all the facts most tax paying citizens of Maryland will say they do not want one dollar of their taxes spent on a group that advocates for and supports breaking the laws of our state and the nation.

I managed to track down a copy of the CASA handout. It spells out a person's rights as an accused. It's sound advice for anyone who is arrested: don't answer any questions and ask to speak to your lawyer. That's not telling anyone how to circumvent the system, it's telling them how the system works.

JustABill:
'No one is saying they need to ask the people they serve to "show their papers"'

Please explain to me how you expect Casa De Maryland to know if it is serving illegal immigrants or not with any of its funds if they do not ask for some proof of citizenship i.e. papers.

JustABill, like Peter says, that right wing talking point about how Casa supports and promotes illegal activity is "total malarkey." Glad to hear you now support Casa.

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-facts-machine/2010/10/2010-maryland-gubernatorial-race-ehrlich-illegal-immigration-fact-check-3070.html

There are literally dozens of state and county education, job, and legal assistance programs out there. None of them, of course, check immigration status. The only reason why Casa is singled out for bogus claims is because it's been proven over and over that people love being able to scapegoat a certain segment of society. I don't even know if I support Casa getting this money (not that it's a lot of money one way or another), but plenty of these comments need debunking because they're based on a complete lack of factual knowledge at best and blatant xenophobia at worst.

Frank

3:03 am on Monday, December 5, 2011

Quit spamming, bigot. You've spammed that link several times already.***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Why do you call Tonto a name? Why do you use a pejorative term? Why do you tell him not to post?

"I would willingly shop at a store requiring proof of citizenship, perhaps a driver's license or SSN or a national card of some sort."

Can you clarify this? Do you mean to say that every time you go to a laundromat or Starbucks you want to show your papers comrade?

My point is that most of us engage in illegal activity, and on a regular basis. So, yes, the analogy is a little over the top, but it highlights the fact that we shouldn't get so hung up on a person's legal status.

Moreover, it's unreasonable to check a person's immigration status all the time. Restaurants don't check to see if their customers have any outstanding warrants. And, I would not return to a store that required be to produce ID to buy a toothbrush. I find your recommendation that we carry a national ID card to be chilling and a violation of civil liberties.

Peter and Corbin, since you both enjoy using ridiculously unrelated analogies, let me throw one out her for you to consider. If you see nothing wrong with turning a blind eye to a few million people living in this country illegally I have to ask how would you feel after learning about 19 terrorists that came into the country with counterfeit "papers" and lived here illegally (even here in Maryland) for a year or more and no one ever caught them because they had picked up a pamphlet from CASA that showed them how to skirt the law? Then one day those 19 terrorists successfully committed an atrocious act of violence that resulted in the deaths of thousands of people that were just living their everyday lives in the belief that our government leaders were doing everything possible to ensure their safety starting with keeping our boarders secure.

Now I am not saying that this happened or that might happen again because of CASA but just like the actions of a driving school not adequately teaching the dangers of speeding, turning a blind eye to an organization that overtly teaches people how to break the laws of our state is a complete failure to society.

And yes, I am using a few exaggerations and one horrific act that hopefully will never happen again to over emphasize my point.

Please bring up a rediculously unrelated analogy I brought up in this discussion. If you're referring to the flood one, you actually started comparing immigration to actual floods, and the term flood was brought up by hmj. If you're talking about Serial Killers, you actually brought that up first as well. The only comparison I've brought up is comparing illegal immigration to general illegal activity (i.e. speeding and other examples above), and calling that "rediculously unrelated" is only possible if you ignore the fact that they both contain the word illegal and the examples I selected involve acts that are taxpayer subsidized.

In regards to your example, it's not just that it's over the top, but it's just plain wrong. In the incident you're referring to, most worked within the system by obtaining legal visas so they wouldn't even need that advice. And as Peter said, the information in the Casa De Maryland pamphlets isn't some holy grail of data - it's standard legal information that could be synthasized from a dozen other places if Casa wasn't providing it.

"Now I am not saying that this happened or that might happen again because of CASA"

Then why bother considering it at all.

I think if that policy were to actually spread/occur it would be a logistical nightmare. People intentionally moved away from paying with Checks because it requires ID verification and all sorts of additional processing, now you want to add on an additional step for every business transaction that occurs - buying ice cream, movie tickets, getting gas. All those transactions and lines are now slowed down by these checks. If I forget my drivers license/ID I now can't do business? What if I'm a child/teenager and I don't have any legal form of identification? Now we have to have IDs for them?

I am pretty sure you're in the minority on this one.

Good morning, Jeff! I see you are on a roll! All I had to do was walk past my computer this morning to see the 'fire' coming out of it. Heehee! Not to change the subject but, if you don't drink coffee, could you at least get me a $600 gift card to Starbucks. Tell them to go light on the foam (air) 'cause, at my age, I have enough 'air' of my own...light and airy. Hummm! Have a great day! Get your sled greased up. Mr Snowman cometh!

There are very few people who pay all of their use taxes and who never speed (the exception would be people who do not drive and only make local purchases). Not that there is a moral equivalence among crimes, but simply to note that the legality of an action is not inextricably entwined with its morality. When "illegal" is used as a noun, we need to recognize that it's a label that applies nigh-universally.

It is not simple to check a person's immigration status. Most of us don't know all of the ways in which a person can legally be in the country, nor is a social security card identification. In addition, requiring people to constantly produce their papers is the hallmark of a totalitarian state, not the sort of thing I'm willing to advocate. The nonchalance with which you endorse such measures is disturbing; are there any measures you think would go too far?

Finally, whereas I have both a passport and a social security card, I don't carry either. I don't produce ID on demand, nor do I expect to be asked for such.

jnrentz1

8:00 pm on Thursday, December 8, 2011

Doug in Rockville:

You said:

"The use of the word "illegal" in this discussion is nothing but an attempt to paint people who are undocumented and in this country as criminal. This is a falsehood, plain and simple. You want to know what speeding and living here while undocumented have in common? Both are civil misdemeanor offenses. Neither one is criminal." ***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

You are mistaken. Title 8, Section 1325, of the United States Code provides for the criminal offense of Illegal Entry. This is entering the United States without inspection by an Immigration Officer.

The first offense carries up to six (6) months confinement. The second or subsequent offense(s) carry up to two (2) years confinement. The offender may also be fined and deported.

Secondly, moving traffic violations in Maryland are for the most part criminal offenses.

jnrentz1,

You are just exposing yourself even further....it's interesting that you post part a (selectively) of this section of the US Code, but you fail to post all of it. It is indeed a civil section. It is you, sir (or madam), that is incorrect. Here is the entire section, unfiltered:

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.

Notice that sections (b) contains the phrase "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed."

Your willful misrepresentation of fact is telling.

There are criminal charges and offenses that result from people who ignore immigration orders and try to come back after they are deported. Those are not the people I am referring to. I completely support rounding all repeat offenders and people who have any criminal charges, infractions, or convictions, and deporting them immediately.

That's what we're doing.

I will repeat, not all undocumented persons in the USA are here against the law (#1), and #2) many undocumented people who have built lives and families here are contributing members of society.

Dream act kids are here through no fault of their own. The law you nativists are trying to take to referendum is a good, constructive, and net-positive law. But yuo won't let that stop you from your xenophobicly motivated hatred and fear driving you to harm people.

Again, may God have mercy on your darkened souls.

One more important point--civil penalties can still include fines and jail time. That does not make them criminal offenses.

You really need to look again at the moving violations. They are not mostly criminal offenses.

"Alas", now there is a word you don't see used often these days..............almost Shakespearean! Bravo.........Doug.........Bravo!

All Illegal Aliens should be deported.

Doug in Rockville:

You said:

"The time is ripe for immigration reform that creates a pathway to citizenship for contributing members of society, and reforms the immigration process to ensure that the needs of our economy in the future have more influence over the year-to-year legal admittance so that people are not forced to make such choices as they were in the past."

No sir. There should NOT be a path to citizenship for any foreigner who violates or evades our laws, including those who are in the United States illegally.

We as a people must not reward illegal behavior. Enter the United States legally. Obey all our laws, learn and use our language, English. Work hard, nurture your families, enjoy our freedoms, keep all of your customs that do not run afoul of our laws, and become citizens. The alien will then be welcomed.

But there should be no amnesty of any kind for any illegal alien.

Amnesty for illegal aliens not only rewards the law breaker, it insults those aliens who obeyed our laws, and did things the right way.

Thanks Jeff, I'll take the lack of substantive refute as an admission of validity. If there were any good moral arguments to make against what I'm saying they'd have already been made. Aside from the occasional "enforce our laws" and "legal immigrants" red-herrings, none have been offered by any of the anti-immigrant commenters on this thread.

It sure is, Jeff. It sure is.

Yes. Let us put it to a vote. Let us have the Maryland referendum regarding the Dream Act voted on. Currently, some of the Dream Act supporters are in court attempting to prevent a vote on the Dream Act.

Kudos to you, Corbin. I second the motion! I started to make that suggestion this morning when both my computer & cell were innundated with repetitive (basically) bickering. Lost total sense of direction & became way too personal. Actually, childish! I refrained figuring it would just allow some on this thread to sarcastically accuse me of somehow playing 'parent'. Hummm!

Frank

9:44 pm on Thursday, December 8, 2011

Why are you interested? Are you going to look up the license plate so that you can intimidate them?**************************************************
*********************************************************************

Why the question? Why the hostility? How could I intimidate them?

You asked questions of your own and answered none of mine.

Jeff, please enlighten me what someone's motivations could be for wanting to punitively punish contributing members of society? Where is the logic in there being non-xenophobic "intentions" for that? And what are they? Please, I would like to know what they are. I'd be very interested to know that they exist.

Every time I've engaged with anyone on this question it always comes back to a simple dislike of brown people, or a feeling that the brown people are "bringing down" 1) our country 2) a person's community. It's ALWAYS from fear. ALWAYS. Why would anyone not afraid of "others" care to want to persecute these otherwise law-abiding and contributing people? You don't hear people getting upset when the government is considering a grant to groups that assist people from Europe, do you? Casa is hated because they help brown people. They are a good organization that does 100% lawful work. There is no reason to go after them, their credibility, and malign them like the nativists on this thread have done.

A spade is a spade, Jeff.

Md ranks #2 in food stamp fraud because of what I just pointed out. We also #48 in the country for job creation except for illegals. The land of the free for illegals cost us taxpayers mega bucks. They are sending billions back to their country and opening business's here. You have to see it if you live in silver spring. Why do you think they have so many babies? Who in there right mind would have kids with no $$ to support them unless they rely on their neighbors tax $$ to raise them through college. We have to vote outside the norm in md. As a many year democrat I refuse to vote for someone just because he's democrat. I now also check their voting records since their words do not equal their voting.. www.votesmart.org

amdactivist:

Well said.

amdactivist, I don't think you have cited the place where you get your facts. Please enlighten readers with your sources. Please list only legitimate sites please.

Thanks for your participation in the debate, it is greatly appreciated. FYI, if you move to granddaughter moved to Virginia she could get that in-state tuition rate. Of course, being a proud Marlander, I am confused why you do not recommend the university located in College Park.