Well said, I agree. To collect guns from private law abiding citizens is not doing anything to prevent shootings and tragedies. Just look at Chicago, can't carry, can't own and the highest crime by shooting rates in the country. It isn't the 'tool' it is the person using it.

I think people should read up on the success of these programs before deriding them.

http://www.umassmed.edu/news/articles/2010/goods_for_guns.aspx

Guns are not the issue... People are the focus. It is our rite to have arms.... Stats show that in many countries, the crime rate is down, because every household has firearms. These few psychotic individuals, would find other means, if a gun was not available.

Why should we have to pay more taxes? If you put some of the traitors in jail, they will quit wasting tax money, then you can afford more incarceration expenses. Also, if you put more criminals in, with less TVs and more menial jobs, you can pay for a lot of those horrible TV dinners and nutriloaf. Let them work on prison farms to cut food expenses and hire socialist doctors to lower medical costs.

Ben Basham, are you kidding me?!?

"Well said, I agree. To collect guns from private law abiding citizens is not doing anything to prevent shootings and tragedies. "

HELLO, the guns just used to murder 20 children were just sitting around in a "private law abiding citizen[']s" home. If they weren't there, 28 people, including that law abiding citizen, would still be alive today. The fact you don't see that very obvious fact is truly mind-boggling.

Agree!

exactly

Jag...responsible gun owners keep their firearms in a gun safe, not laying around!!!! The shooter was obviously sick and someone in his family or close to him may have seen a problem and tried to intervein. Bad guys will get their hands on guns when they want to...this guy stole them from his mom (either an irresponsible gun owner or she foolishly shared the combination with him) either way they got stolen. The guns did not kill those wonderful children....the sicko did. I will not give away my guns or my right to have them to anyone!!!!

they weren't surrendered. they were sold.
What was was surrendered was their 2nd amendment.

How many times does it have to be said - Guns don't kill people - People kill people.

Doug, is it simply arrogance that folks like you believe that just because YOU feel that YOU can be trusted with guns that everyone else in your home can be too? You don't know how the "sicko" got a hold of the guns from his mother. The fact remains had the guns never existed in the home in the first place then the "sicko" would have never gotten a hold of them. Why does that not make sense to folks like you? An assault rifle that held 100 rounds? Why in the hell would anyone want to own that? "Because it is our right to!"? Brilliant.

Should I start strapping an uzi onto my four year old from now on when he heads to school so that he could defend himself on the day you, someone in your home, or someone else like you decides to storm into another school? If you live in an area where you feel you need a gun for protection, THEN MOVE! Get a better job, move to a better place, but please stop endangering the rest of us simply because you "have the right to own guns."

Where was the 'repeat' in Newtown?

"How many times does it have to be said - Guns don't kill people - People kill people."

It doesn't matter how many times you spout the disturbingly simplistic logic, it doesn't make it true. How deep in the koolaid are you to think guns don't play a role in these mass killings? How insane do you have to be to think weapons of mass killing should be available to the general public?

number9dream: You are correct. Confiscating guns from law abiding citizens is not the answer. I am not trying to diminish the horror of violent crime of the bozo who committed the mass killings in Newtown but, it was not the fault of the firearms he used. Most likely he had easy access to the firearms. Had they been secured in a gun safe, he could have gotten guns by stealing them from someone else or, buying a stolen gun from a street thug. Maybe he would have used a sword or, driven a car or truck into the school or, used any of a thousand other means. There is no doubt that he was focused on killing and would have done so by any means availabe to him.

Seriously, you're free to argue people should have the right to be able to commit mass murder w/assault weapons, extended magazines, etc. if you want, but you most certainly cannot argue that those weapons that are built for the sole purpose of inflicting mass killing don't play a key role in these shootings. These shootings wouldn't happen over and over and over again if these weapons were not accessible, obviously.

AL...it disappoints me that "folks like you" want to consider me and others arrogant for feeling strongly about our Bill of Rights. Every person in my household is educated in firearm usage, proper storage, cleaning, range time etc. The real fact is that if the guns never existed, you would be living in a tyranical state...nothing like the free country that we live in. I don't care at this point how he got the guns...that point is now moot...he was sick and acted as a criminal!!! The reason that folks collect these weapons and the large magazines is fear of an over oppressive government that will attempt to take away our rights (and yes gun ownership is our right)....their belief in the apocalypes....what ever....it is our right keep and bear arms!!!

Should you start teaching your children about firearms safety and the respect that one should have with regards to the damage they can do....absolutely!!!! are you going to strap a firearm to your toddlers side, don't be ridiculous!!! Teach him or her to respect firearms....absolutely!!!!

I don't need to move, don't need a better job......but if you were my neighbor and an asailent was after you or someone in your household.....my house would not be the one you come to looking for help!!!!

"it is our right keep and bear arms!!!"

Only a nutjob could think assault weapons capable of killing dozens in a minute is what the founding fathers put in our Constitution. You might as well be saying you have the right to buy nukes - it's nonsensical gibberish that has nothing to do with the "arms" protected by the 2nd Amendment.

I am going to vomit if one more gun advocate has NOTHING to say but the same old, stunningly ignorant talking points - it's the killer not the gun, take the guns away and only criminals have guns. Especially when neither comment is factually true. On Friday, A maniac in Europe entered a school to kill children. The difference? He only had a knife and there were injuries, BUT NO ONE DIED. Not one child. So yes, it is the killer not the gun, but why do we have to put an assault weapon in the killer's hands? Maximum carnage? That the goal? Congratulations.

so what you anti-gun folks are saying is that the killer in Sandy Hook used an assault rifle?? Last i checked i couldnt find one. Also i find that anti-gun folks say that automatic weapons should be banned. Last i checked i couldnt find a fully automatic weapon either. They both have been banned for atleast a decade. Educate yourself people. Right now you want to ban something thats already banned. If you antigun people would educate yourself,the world would be a slightly better place. The fact of the matter is the boy used a gun to kill innocents. So just say "All Guns should be banned". All look silly trying to outlaw something that is already outlawed. Im surprised no other pro-gun folks correct anti-gun folks on this. Last i checked, the boy used a battle/semi-automatic weapon. Media says he used highpowered pistols...wth..For a gift card i am now going to turn in my musket but they are not getting my good guns :D people died so we could have a choice and it bothers me that others rather not have a choice.

Right! Like those monsters who sexually abuse innocent little children. Not one person, who turned in a gun at this event, was a criminal or had any history of breaking the law. I heard that one rifle turned-in was an antique double barrel "Fox" worth over $100,000.

How about "baseball bats"? They are the number one item used to kill in America.

You have a great point. I believe if you own a gun it needs to have smoke coming out of the barrel once a week just to stay comfortable and accurate. More then one gun rotate usages.

JAG - You said:
"Only a nutjob could think assault weapons capable of killing dozens in a minute is what the founding fathers put in our Constitution. "
A .223 Bushmaster isn't an assault rifle LOL, but that aside, what weapons do you feel in your opinion are allowed under the 2nd amendment? Does it specify any restrictions?

Maybe now a majority of these guns can be returned to there rightful owners they were stolen from... I bet that won't happen either.

Brook
You are right a lot of the bad people will end up with guns. I know a lot of people say guns dont kill people people kill people. Now my thinking of this is if the guns are not around then the people cant kill people. I been rasied around guns used for hunting deer elk or other game in Michigan. I was there a very young child when the riots broke out in Detroit did my family pull the guns out when you had people shooting right outside your door no they were still in a lock gun cabinet. That was showing responsbilty how to own back then if anyone understands what I am saying. Yes we have the right to bear arms but maybe just maybe it should be 1 per household less guns out there to be stolen from homes that can be used to kill people. I am sorry I feel it should be a normal rifle or pistol not these crazy weapons how ever it is spelled a gulk. come on who uses that kind of stuff drug dealers moffia and terriost and our loving miltary NORMAL people do not need this kind of stuff. I am sorry all but I can go on and on but the main thing is there is 461 guns off the street broken ones maybe but hey broken ones are more dangerous then new ones if one thing touches it and it can go off in shells are in there so they are dangerous just as much. MY HATS OFF TO MD

Brook
You are right a lot of the bad people will end up with guns. I know a lot of people say guns dont kill people people kill people. Now my thinking of this is if the guns are not around then the people cant kill people. I been rasied around guns used for hunting deer elk or other game in Michigan. I was there a very young child when the riots broke out in Detroit did my family pull the guns out when you had people shooting right outside your door no they were still in a lock gun cabinet. That was showing responsbilty how to own back then if anyone understands what I am saying. Yes we have the right to bear arms but maybe just maybe it should be 1 per household less guns out there to be stolen from homes that can be used to kill people. I am sorry I feel it should be a normal rifle or pistol not these crazy weapons how ever it is spelled a gulk. come on who uses that kind of stuff drug dealers moffia and terriost and our loving miltary NORMAL people do not need this kind of stuff. I am sorry all but I can go on and on but the main thing is there is 461 guns off the street broken ones maybe but hey broken ones are more dangerous then new ones if one thing touches it and it can go off in shells are in there so they are dangerous just as much. MY HATS OFF TO MD

Gun control worked in Nazi Germany, Communist China, and Russia. By disarming the people those governments had full control without the chance of an armed rebellion. Those government have also committed atrocities against their unarmed citizens. Gun control protects only the criminals who know full well their victims will be unarmed.

I am with you 100% on this one. Ya, call the cops they show up after all the shit has hit the fan. With all the budget cuts time wise it may take an hour or more before they get there. Oh ya who wants to be the one to go door to door asking can I have all your guns please? To do it by force is not going to set well in the publics eyes either.

so what could have happened if a teacher , or other abiding citizen had , had a gun to take out the shoter before he could have shot that many people, no they are not taught to protect them self and others. just the bad guys, terrist etc. would have gun's. I am with you

Amen !

I agree with you that crooks will always have guns to rob and kill people. So take away the guns from law abiding citizens and there will be more robberies and killings due to that

tax payers! but i am sure you already know that!

Money you spent at Klein's.

Per officials, Klein's ShopRite's partnership with the program paid for the gift certificates.

Sean

@PcTech- Shows how much research they did in the area. It was already crime ridden!

ShopRite donated it as a promotional write off so people could get their old broken weapons out of the house. I am fairly sure there were few working weapons relinquished.

Post the names and addresses of the ones that turned in their guns and we will see how many get robbed next week. Then we will know if gun control works.

Sam you are on to something we ought to talk

And you know this how Steve, I am sure there was functional ones a plenty but for you to say not at all is BS

My, my Other Tim & Fed upwithwhiners,

We do become bitchy little girls when things don't go our way, don't we?

"Fed upwithwhiners"
You sure proved that screen name false.

Facts are 85% broken guns.

Look at the picture, Bonehead.

You are a great statesman because of your shrewd grasp of international issues and your guns. Hail to the chief!

I agree, unfortunately the sheeple are being frightened into submission.

Jag.. Freedom of speach.. I don't like what they said either but blocking would make us just like DPRK, Russia, Iran, Siria, Cuba...ect.

Hey,stop the Jew bashing and respond with decorum. Name calling get you nowhere and weakens your arguments.

Oh...didn't you know? it was all the bad guys that turned in their guns, we are soooooo much safer now. not !!

Liberalism killed those children in Conn. Had that Teacher, Therapist or Principal had a right to carry weapon in their possession not one kid would have been harmed. You the citizen are the first responders - The police, firefighters are the 2nd responders. They only show up to view the carnage after the fact.

Why didn't the kid"s mother have her guns locked up so he couldn't get at them. Responsible gun owners do that! Now all the do gooders are calling for more gun control...We have enough law on the books to stop anything if they were applied...The guns were instruments to carry out this awful crime. The crazy people and crooks are the thing our lawmakers should address.The media dwells on these crimes for a week..all they do is cause some wacko to try to outdo the last.

Yep no more cars for people on anti depressants and no sales of kitchen knives to people with a mental issue's... No more baseball bat sales to people with mental problems

....err, $100.

Who was the "thug" Newtown?

No doubt the guns being turned in are stolen anyhows.

Just in the case nobody else ever told you that you were an Idiot, well let me be the first to tell you....You're an Idiot

1ke .. And what makes you differ from any fool ? You have your opinion of things in life and to answer your question fool.. I carry mine where ever it is legal to do so ! If you don't want it don't have it ! But by damn don't tell me what I should own as a legal law abiding citizen with a carry permit and a federal pin number.

Killings in right to carry states are much lower than those who forbid it. Hmm!

"Killings in right to carry states are much lower than those who forbid it. Hmm!"

That's a BS statement.

Very well said TB

Well said.

Frank, fertilizer is easy purchased as is diesel fuel and the way to use it for illict purposes is on the Internet. Easy access to irresponsilby owned guns is the real problem next is mental health. Fewer mental health institutions than ever before since the use of pills etc. but some of those who are mentally ill prefer not to take meds and spend hours playing multilation video games.....confuse their reality and society pays.

"Frank, fertilizer is easy purchased as is diesel fuel and the way to use it for illict purposes is on the Internet."

No it's not. Have you ever tried to buy Ammonium Nitrate after the Murrah Building?

Good luck with that...

I dont question GODs work, but TB, thats a good way to look at it. Besides, if criminals wont obey GODs law " Thy shall not kill"; what makes people think that criminals will obey mans law? If people cant see this, I recommend school of the blind by Ms.Keller

Falling on deaf ears. These libs don't have the ability to reason. They actually believe what they're saying and that is the scary part.

"Do you have any idea how often that happens?" About as often as someone uses firearms to commit mass murder?

Are you making a public policy recommendation or just being selfish?

Dude sounds like you hit a nerve with Frank and 1ke !

Klein can afford it, but for the most part I think you are correct.

The background check on the ones turning in the stolen guns should have been run just like it is when I buy a gun as a law abiding person ! And if any of these guns are stolen do they do a check and return them to a LEGAL owner that reported them stolen, yeah right !

Did BO have any tears for the 4 Americans murdered in Benghazi??

Excellent point. Or tears shed over his "double tap" drone attacks that kill first responders with a second drone attack a certain period of time after the first.

"Did BO have any tears for the 4 Americans murdered in Benghazi??"

They were being paid handsomely for being there. They knew the risks.

Sigh. One would think you could do your own research:

It is Donald James Wheal (1931-2008), a British novelist and scriptwriter. He wrote under different pseudonyms, among them Donald James and Thomas Dresden.

This program originated in other cities.

http://www.umassmed.edu/news/articles/2010/goods_for_guns.aspx

???????????????????????????

Steve are you kidding me.....this guy is no ones hero....in this case the system worked the way it was supposed to. The guy started being irrational and making threats....someone found out about it, reported the guy and now an unworthy gun owner is off of the streets!!!! THE SYSTEM WORKED!!!!

Greg read your post:
The last thing you want in close quarter like a house is a long barrel type weapon,

If you cant defend against an intruder with a mossberg 5 pump you need back up personal not more guns.

"What percentage of homicide victims are those who were killed in their own homes by an unknown intruder? Just curious..."

Apparently not curious enough to do the research yourself...

Granted, this study is 8 years old, but it states that, in households where guns are present, "a very conservative estimate of the actual homicide risk to each household member being killed per year, where no family member has a criminal record, is in the range of three-eighths of one-thousandth of 1 percent to three-quarters of one-thousandth of 1 percent (.000375 - .00075 percent). Over a forty year period that risk translates to between one-and-one-half hundredths to three one-hundredths of 1 percent of homicide risk for each family member (.015 - .03 percent)."

http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

There is also this, which takes a different viewpoint:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-kellermann.htm

Much of Kellerman's research has been criticized in recent years, but it is still worth reviewing.

The best weapon for defense of a home's interior is a sawed-off shotgun.

Let's can the "liberal thought" and try some thought thought. If the school hadn't been there, it wouldn't have happened.

My, how you rail!.

Lorna says - "I know it might seem horrid of me, but my instant gut feeling is that if only the Principal had had a "glock" in her desk drawer and shot the b*stard right through the broken glass right between his miserable eyes"

What a simple solution to the problem. I have a few questions, Lorna:
- Are you saying that ALL school principals should have a Glock in their desk drawer? There is a cost factor there, but let's assume that is met.
- Won't that information soon become common knowledge in the community? There is some good in knowing that.
- Won't the desk drawer need to be locked at all times to insure that no one - in the school system or a visitor - can have access to the weapon?
- How long do you think all of those principals will keep that desk drawer locked at all times?

Applying brain before engaging typing fingers is usually the best process. Try it sometime.

As usual, another right wing nut failing to properly engage their respective intelligence. Pretty standard operating procedure these days.

Reading through these posts it's plain to see that there are far more crazies out there than anyone thought possible!

"Ought to...worked in Cuba!!!"

More BS. Cuba doesn't have any gun control.

Well HoneygoHal...no answers are absolutely simple, but I guarantee were it your child you would wish the Principal had that power and the practice to use it. Helpless men, women and children are being gunned down every day, usually because they have no defense and the b*stards know it. Yes, taking away all guns sounds like the answer if you live in la,la land...but we all know that gangster, criminals of all types get the weapons of their choice to use as they so choose, whenever they so choose. Give me a clear, well thought out answer to getting armed hoodlums and armed fruitcakes off the street permanently...that would be the very first step. Betcha ya don't have an answer for that....but take the easy road, get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens...yeah...that will work!!!

Lorna, my dear, my precise point is that it is not just as simple as putting a gun in a desk drawer. Such a policy would have to be funded by the school system, and it would cost much more than the cost of a gun. And can you take a guess at who would pay for all of those guns, education, ammunition, and safety devices on the school site? TAXPAYERS. Ironically, those that typically argue for these types of solutions are on the same side of the political aisle (perhaps the same people) that argue strenuously for lower taxes and small government. So here you are saying that taxes need to be raised to pay for guns for principals...

Kinda like seat belt laws...initially you could not get pulled over for just not wearing your seat belt....now the run entrapment maneuvers and host seatbelt enforcement challenges for funding..

he could have used a car or a bomb and it might have been even worse

If the second amendment only applies to government militias, why didn't they disarm civilians after the Constitution was ratified? Federal gun control didn't begin until 1934.

But he didn't! And they didn't in all the other recent legal gun attrocities!

Hey Steve they better be careful those guns might jump up and shoot somebody. I hope someone doesn't come to their home and hurt someone and they are left defenseless.

About 450 them were not able to, probably more.

Properly store firearms are not accessible by those who should not be in contact with them. If you use your rationale, then no one should own a car because a minor could steal it and kill someone or someone can drink and drive and kill themselves or someone else.

More of the same from Frank.

Nothing of any substance, just attack people who don't think the way you do. I just think its ironic for such an "enlightened" liberal to bash people about their education, or lack of it.

it only takes one shot in the right place and a lot of lives would have been saved, there is also a good chance that the deveot would not have gone in if he new ther was apossibility of an armed presence to stop him.

semi-literate oh well she was his mother and i heard she was in bed probibaly asleep, if she new what he intended and was able i would hope she would have stoped him. anyway to each there own ill keep my guns and hope i never have to use them in a situation like that but if i am in one i will have one.

You are correct. Once they started killing little innocent ones from the womb the life of every individual became devalued. Once they took God out of the schools and teach we are in the animal species we were given over to the sinful nature to carry out the fallen nature of man. The Man of Sin (lawlessness) has arrived and our children are being murdered. We need to bring God back into our laws and into every aspect of our lives. We can stop the godless.

Spot on, Sharron. This is all about the decay of society. You can literally blame it on everything. From the single parent households, to television being the babysitter, tv programming and music that glorify/showcase violence, violence against women, sexual promiscuity, etc.

Kathie- I was raised Catholic, but now, I abhor organized religion. Ironically enough, I feel that some of the principles taught are extremely valuable. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, etc. Good moral code to live by, that seems to be missing.

Except that in Heller and McDonald, the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment applies to individuals.

And an appeals court just struck down Illinois's concealed carry law as unconstitutional last week.

Any point Frank?......... Didn't think so.

And why does Frank from Bathesda care about who creates an account on the North Baltimore Patch.

Er.... I mean Bethesda

http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660

As Sherman Potter would say "Bull Feathers" You are refuting a scientific study with conjecture from a left wing nut.

"We haven't tried serious gun control in this country EVER,..."

Lady, please. You're not even trying to have a serious conversation.

HR Pufnstuf - Sounds serious to me. Can you refute that? Can you cite any examples of significant and permanent gun control measures in this country?

HoneygoHal: OMG are you serious??????? Right here in Maryland the MSP regulates all assault rifles and handguns. They have a list of everyone who owns one and EVEN HAVE SPENT SELL CASINGS FROM THEM. Also, they do a backgroud check which takes 8 days.

Furthermore, although many laws vary by state, across the nation everyone who buys a new gun is checked in a federal database to make sure they're not a a felon or terrorist. Please educate yourself about gun laws.

John Lott is a fraud.

"Furthermore, although many laws vary by state, across the nation everyone who buys a new gun is checked in a federal database"

Private sales and gun shows also?

yah I meant a scientific/unbiased source (like in a peer reviewed journal) not some paperback on amazon... and background checks are already the status quo, so not what I am talking about with serious gun control. I was referring to additional legislation like an assault weapons ban which has NOT been tried in this country, but seems to be successful elsewhere. You can't honestly tell me that you have data to show that banning assault weapons in this country would not decrease gun homicides. Why are we so unwilling to find out?

Steve opines "John Lott is a fraud."
And Stevie posts bogus firearm murder statistics and he has the nuts to call Lott a fraud?
Look in the mirror Stevie to see what a fraud is.

Corbin- great question, and YES, absolutely they are checked at gun shows. The so called "gun show loophole" is a myth. Private gun sales are checked only for regulated firearms (handguns and assault rifles).

brilliantviolet- would you want an assault weapon ban to apply to state and local police departments as well? If no one else has them, why do the police need them? If you're not willing to make the police follow the same rules, you are really admitting that you know it will never work.

HR Pufnstuf - Adam Lanza killed 21 people with a "legal" Bushmaster - Legal in Connecticut. Last time I checked, there wasn't any "gun wall" between states, so it could wind up in Maryland with very little trouble - that's all the knowledge I need for now. I choose to live my life without the intimate knowledge of laws regarding killing machines. On the other hand, I'll bet you don't know the torque specs for head bolts on a 1975 Porsche 911 engine. I'm happier with my knowledge, thanks.

Honeygohal- reports now are that he used 4 handguns and left the Bushmaster in the car. Also, note that the young man tried to buy his own guns and was turned down (showing that the laws work). He then stole the guns from his mother, after killing her.

How about making gun owners personally responsible for ANY use of their weapon under any circumstances? A relative steals your gun and kills someone- guess what, you're being tried for murderer... Owning a weapon is something that puts us all at increased risk. Why aren't gun owners held more responsible for their choices? I don't own a gun and it's not my choice to live in a world of gun violence, but yet I'm the one put at risk. I'm sure many gun owners do lock up their weapons, but I think many would have to rethink their choices for ownership, storage, type of firearm if something like this were put into place. I just don't think there is enough pressure on people to act responsibly.

Violet- I would suspect that if you were negiligent and someone stole your gun, escpecially your coo-coo son, you would be tried for murder.

But know this: you were born into a world of violence, with or without guns. The reason you don't see it everyday is because others do the dirty work for you. If our founding fathers were alive today rest assured that they would own assault rifles themselves.

So if the gunshow loophole is a myth, why did the Washington Post deride it as a source of weapons for Terrorists? http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/closing-the-terror-gap-and-the-gun-show-loophole/2011/06/06/AGTKubKH_story.html

Why do those who argue against "closing" the gunshow loophole claim it isn't within the rights of the commerce clause? Surely they must accept it exists to argue against it.

How do you explain the investigation done by NYC Government to investigate gun show sales? http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/pdf/2009/pr442-09_report.pdf

Why can't we just tighten this loophole and be done with it?

I remember Fran DeFilipo on WBAL. He used to say he was for closing the gun show loophole. But when asked, he didn't have a clue what the gun show loophole was.

First, there is no gun show loophole in Maryland. Second in states where the gun show loophole exists, the loophole is the state laws that exist outside the doors of the gun show are the same as inside the doors of the gun show.

For example, here in my state (a not disclosed state west of the continental divide) I am allowed to sell my rifle to anyone without a background check. I can sell it in a classified ad in the newspaper, or I can sell it at a gun show. Closing the gun show loophole would mean I can still sell it in a classified ad, but I could not sell it at a gun show.

Closing the gun show loophole would only cause a problem for honest citizens, and not effect criminals. In fact, if the gun show loophole was closed, the people in the gun show could decide on the purchase, and then go into a parking lot a block away and finalize the transaction.

About the Wash Post article, the Wash Post has been a long time advocate of gun control. And Mayor Bloomberg violated federal laws for his little escapade. He is lucky GWB didn't charge him with a crime.

Corbin, I can assure you as someone buy buys guns at show that the guns are sold subject to all rules and regs for that state. Whoever wrote that WaPo article saying that you can buy fully automatic rifles at shows with no background check is on crack, for real.

That's not true. You can go to any gun show and buy whtever you want right out of the parking lot. Then there are the Walkers that walk around with firearms. They are "cash and carry". Even better find a regular at the shows. There is an entirely different and bigger Black Market if firearms amongst the "I lost all my guns in a boating accident " <wink> <wink> Nudge...Nudge crowd. Look what this guy could do.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7297745#.UNhxEXOtzEU

Steve, it is totally false to say that you can buy "whatever you want" from a gun show parking lot. It is true that private sales are unregulated *except* for handguns and so-called assault rifles like AR15s. But the .22 cal rifles and 12 guage pumps, as pictured in your link as selling privately, are not what people so mass shootings with. People who don't know guns or the gun laws have wild delusions about how easy it is to get them.

LOL The last gun show I went to was in Peach Bottom. The Amish were carting away voluminous amounts of guns and ammo. They didn't show any ID.

Steve, there are no restrictions on non-regulated firearms and ammunition. But there are plenty on the regulated arms.

Of course, those marauding groups of Amish gang-bangers are going to be a threat in the near future.

But one interesting statistic was from an FBI report several years ago. They tracked where firearms used in crime came from. A little more than 1% came from gun shows,

But gun shows make great news, and are good for grandstanding politicians.

But the bottom line is that gun sales at gun shows are a non-issue

To The Crude - latest new member of the knuckledraggers club:

Okay, we arm everybody. As Lorna suggested above, that includes school principals, perhaps others in the school system. Such a practice may extend to other public servants. If you didn't get the inference in my response to Lorna, the community will be aware that the principal (and possibly others) have guns. That may be some comfort to the parents, but wasn't our boy Adam Lanza a member of the community, too? So, again referring to my Lorna response, there needs to be a secure place to keep these weapons - do we have the principal carrying? And with such a large population of gun users, education and training (marksmanship included) would certainly be a necessity. Weapons, ammunition, secure storage, training - that would add up to quite a lot of money for a school system, not to mention the other government agencies with similar requirements. It certainly wouldn't be fair to place that burden on the individuals now, would it? So you are suggesting increasing taxes to pay for all of this, yes?

Just asking.

Wayne, you should write an article for the newspaper. Suggestion - get yourself a really good proofreader.

FYI - The Baltimore-area Shoprites are franchises belonging to the Klein family/corporation. They used to have several Kleins Supermarkets in Harford County before they turned them into Shoprites. Little if any connection to New Jersey.

Kleins sold 50% of the company to the New Jersey company.

Do you always look to 6 year old children for advice and wisdom. That does explain a lot.

But the government, has been on a consistent track to restrict the liberties of the citizens. If you study history, you will see that this has been happening since the 1800's.

It just took off at a fast rate under GWB, and accelerated even faster under BHO.

Wayne, I think you are attempting to discuss issues of a serious nature while posing as someone who can't spell at a 2nd grade level. Many folks might think most of your educational development is at a similar level. Perhaps either owning up to your charade or completing your education would be a better way to discuss such a serious topic.

Wayne suffers from the unionized public education system.

Klein's Shoprite is a Harford County institution going back 4 generations now. Nothing to do with Klein's Sporting Goods. Now Klein's in Forest Hill sold guns and ammo along with clothing, hardware, toys and I think horse feed back in the 50's - 70's. Good people.

Short Answer - Yes

Longer Answer (From Ben Franklin) - Those that would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.

Even Longer Answer - Countless US citizens have given their lives to gain or preserve liberty in the United States. To suggest their sacrifice was meaningless because 20 innocent lives were worth more is evil.

Tyler, what is your trade off for your freedom of speech? What are you willing to give up?
The silly notion that what you posted is the choice we have shows this subject cannot be disguised in rational terms.

Wow!!! What a statistic Stevie! Can you support it with facts or are we to believe a habitual liar like you have proven yourself to be?
Let me help the readers so you do not mislead them again and again and again.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

12664 murdered by firearms in 2011, not 31347. Go to the FBI not the Brady Bunch if you want the truth. Never believe Stevie.

2700 children A DAY, every year are killed by "doctors" using suction tubes and scalpels. When is the call to outlaw suction tubes and scalpels coming?

Steve didn't say murdered, he said died. But you did help give the breakdown that "The Dude" asked for.

JoeBlob you have proven once again what an Idiot you are. As soon as you lose an argument you start the cut and pasting again. No wonder they banned you.

Geez, so if the number is inaccurate the argument is meaningless? That's a good way out...

This is a human child.
http://patrickandchristy.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/so-are-we-still-a-christian-nation/

Except to the immoral.

Steve 1:22 pm on Monday, December 17, 2012 "JoeBlob you have proven once again what an Idiot you are. As soon as you lose an argument you start the cut and pasting again. No wonder they banned you."

I cut and paste factual support that shows YOU Stevie to be the one consistently wrong.
What argument did I lose? If I don;t support what I say you whine like the child you are. when i support what I post with facts you whine like the child you are.
When I prove you lied you whine like the child you are.

you must not care that you look like an utter fool.

Sanchez/Joe - ANY medical procedure has a risk. Some accidents cannot be avoided, some can.

I hope we can let our kids go to school or the movies without an "accident" from a deliberate event that costs them their life.

"31,347 Americans died from guns in 2011, only 6,653 U.S. soldiers have died in 11 years of Iraq & Afghanistan wars"

Interesting that you say 'only 6,653 US soldiers have died.

Statistics are wonderful things:
- 2,333,972 people have serve in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11/01. 'Only' 6,653 deaths over that time period is 0.29%, or 29 deaths per 10,000.
- 311,591,917 people live in the USA. Assuming the same 31,347 number of deaths every year over the 11 years since 9/11/01, deaths from guns in the USA is 0.11%, or 11 deaths per 10,000. (actually, to be statistacally correct, one would have to add up the population of the USA over the past 11 years and use that to calculate the percentage, but this old white folk ain't up to that right now.)

While we can all agree with the old salt that "one death is too many," using simple numbers to make a point kind of misses the point...

So we're about 1/3 as safe as a war zone? Sweet. I feel 2/3rds safer already!

Evets suggests that all Americans being equipped as soldiers would lead to a lower death rate. Why not force everyone to join the military permanently? That would blow the budget...

Steve LIED and those "stats" are made up or for4m the VPC or the Brady bunch.

These are children.
http://anti-abortion.info/pictures.php

I love how you throw a wrong number out and then say it doesn't matter.
You sound like a typical lefty or a typical Dem.
Either way, you've shown what an idiot you are.

The Crude suggests that the numbers DO matter. Yes they do - and ONE death from senseless violence is too many - so STFU.

You are desperate to have more folks join you in the idiot club, aren't you?

If you were correct Frank you could prove it as i have proven he was wrong. you have offered nothing.

I have offered all those willing to violate our rights a 2'x3' yardf sign that says "THIS HOME IS A GUN FREE HOME" and there is never any takers.

How about a sign for Sanchez that says "This house is a fully stocked arsenal" that gets displayed when you go out and the house is empty?

to stop those crazy redcoats

That tired old NRA talking point is ridiculous. People are sick when they go to the doctor. People are usually pretty healthy when they die from a gun shot.

Last year handguns killed 48 in Japan, 8 in Great Britain, 34 in Switzerland, 52 in Canada, 58 in Israel, 21 in Sweden, 42in Germany and 10,728 in the USA .

That's a fact.

Medical mistakes cost about 100,000 deaths a year every year.

How many people were killed in automobiles? I would guess a thousand fold more than the 10,728 who died from guns. Lets ban automobiles, it would save countless more lives!

And most of those gun deaths are probably related to the drug trade. Legalize drugs and that number of gun related deaths will drop like a rock.

Gil and Shawn are making a joke, I'm assuming? Comparing cancer (which we spend BILLIONS of dollars trying to cure) and car accidents (which there are thousands of laws and regulations trying to minimize) to gun deaths (which are wholly preventable and not acts of God or random accidents) is pretty funny. I thank you for the joke.

Jag what exactly is your point? Gun deaths are preventable just like automobile deaths. Trying to prevent gun deaths by banning guns is the same as trying to prevent automobile deaths by banning automobiles. It makes no sense, much like yourself.

Shawn, you cannot possibly be serious. Automobile deaths are 99.99999999999% accidental during the course of regular transportation of people and goods. Gun deaths are 100% unnecessary - what the hell is the purpose of assault rifles other than killing dozens of people? No one is hunting (animals, that is. Obviously humans are regularly hunted with them and you apparently approve of that) with them; no one is defending their home with them. There is zero need for them and zero gain in having them in circulation. You're an absolute idiot if you don't see why comparing cars and guns is nonsensical.

Anyone who agrees with you is an idiot. EVIL is the issue.

So the fact that most of the mass shootings over the years have been committed people with documented mental health issues is irrelevant?

It's an inconvenient fact to overlook.

Criminals commit dirty acts with guns every day you dag gum idiot.

1. Press the CAPS LOCK once and maybe folks will pay attention.
2. If you don't see the difference between Newtown and other deaths, you need professional help.

They have some of the most strict gun laws in the country, so I think it is a very good point.

So my assumption about Number 2 is correct?

Thanks for that, I'll steer clear of you.

Guns are tools, like any tool they can be misused. Your point is moot.

Over simplistic on both sides. A gun is designed to kill an animal or human. There is no doubt about that; however, there are many situations where is is both legally and morally ok. you have the right to defend yourself including, in certain circumstances, using deadly force.

The police cannot be everywhere.

Shawn, I would disagree with you. The tool used in this instance, the gun used is the civilian equivalent to the military M-16. The tool is designed to kill people and varmints. I don't think these children were varmints. They were killed by a tool designed to kill people and that is exactly what this tool did. The .223 round used is designed to inflict heavy damage to the person struck. It did exactly what it is designed to do.

Paul,

First, the gun used was not equivilant to and M-16. The M-16 is a fully automatic rifle and is not legal to own without a special permit from the Goverment which is difficult to obtain.

secondly, the .223 round is small in comparison to many military firearms. It was not designed to inflict greater damage. The smaller .223 round was chosen to make the M-16 more controllable during automatic fine than other wepons with larger and more powerful ammo.

That should have been "automatic fire"

Chris, I disagree with you. I have done the research into this ammunition as well as being a former member of the military that qualified with the M-16. The 223 Remington cartridge will fire in the very slightly larger 5.56 mm bore originally used in the M-16. But not vice versa. This cartridge is designed by the military to bounce around inside of it's target inflicting great damage to the victim. I presumed everyone knew that automatic weapons are illegal, however when you put the M-16 in semi-automatic mode these weapons (AR15, Bushmaster, etc.) are almost identical right down to the ammunition used. The 223 round is a high velocity high damage round designed to turn the target into a casualty. Which is exactly why the military have chosen to use it.

I was in the military as well and I am quite familiar with the M-16. The .223 is much smaller than the ammo used in hunting rifles is it not? And why is that? Well it turns out that the military understood that killing a soldier was less effective than wounding them. A wounded soldier requires another to carry him as well as another to care for him. It was a calculated decision to use a smaller LESS Lethal round.

Chris, the whole point of my post was the weapon and the round was designed to hunt people, not wild game. The .223 round is not used by hunters because it does too much damage to the body of the hunted. My whole point was the 223/5.56 round has absolutely only one purpose, shooting people. Not for hunting wild game, but hunting for humans. Perhaps we agree on that as the shooter hunted children.

Bull crap. What good is your peashooter against a drone??

You may be a paranoid schizophrenic.

Worked well in Cuba!

Cuba has fairly lax gun control. All you have to do is pass an aptitude test and a psychological evaluation.

The General is close to going over the edge...

This article (and the others I commented on) was posted on College Park Patch - go to http://collegepark.patch.com/ and see for yourself. Whoever is in charge of College Park Patch is re-posting articles there that have nothing to do with the community. Unfortunately it looks like this *is* "how Patch works." The articles posted on College Park Patch used to be about College Park, or at least it wasn't a stretch to see the connection. Now it might be one article out of 5. Disappointing.

wtf? General, you realize all your comments are gibberish, right?

If I recall correctly, the Kool Aid was "laced" with cyanide at the Jonestown tragedy.

The General IS over the edge. He can't see the difference between a kid who develops a medical condition that takes his life, and a kid who loses his life at the hand of a deranged individual for a reason known only to the deranged individual.

Please, General, get some professional help.

How many guns were involved in Hiroshima?

Blows your mind, huh? There are other weapons of mass destruction in the world - surely that means we shouldn't bother limiting access to assault weapons and just let mass killing occur w/o trying to stop them.

Idiot.

Good grief. There are South Park episodes devoted to comments like this.

For the record, no one is taking away your guns. People are trying to ban certain guns that can kill dozens of people in a minute (and that's the singular purpose - to kill lots and lots of people at once). If you think our founding fathers created the second amendment to protect your right to do that, then that's intellectually and morally pathetic of you. MY country is better than that, thank you.

Exactly right. The fact that someone disputes your comment using South Park episodes to make their point shows how far the intellect level of the gun control crowd has fallen.

To the crowd wanting to ban high cap mags and semi auto firearms are fine with someone who can only kill 10 people and are upset at the ability to kill 20.

As if anyone with a rational mind sees this ending at 20 round mags and semi auto firearms.

And exactly why we as a society shouldn't sit idly by. Unbelievable effort has gone into preventing 9/11 from ever happening again and ditto effort should go into preventing Newtown from every happening again. That, of course, includes removing easy access to assault weapons which serve only one purpose - to inflict mass carnage and terror. It is not rocket science.

That doesn't work. We would become Somalia.

CCW don't result in less crime.

Justion--I assume that you are joking, because no rational person could believe that.

Sam--in which country is the crime rate down because "everyone" owns a gun? Compare us to England, Switzerland, France, Greece--we have a higher rate of gun deaths than Nicaragua or most of the countries in the middle east.

Guns don't kill people, but people with guns can kill a lot of people--if this guy had a knife, maybe he could have gotten to one or two kids before someone tackled him. If he had a pistol, or a rifle (like normal people use for hunting) he maybe could have killed 5 or 6 people before they got to him. But give someone an assault gun that holds 100+ rounds and there is no stopping him. Yes, there is a Second Amendment right to bear arms, but does that mean there should be no restriction on that right? Anyone, no matter what their mental state, should be allowed access to guns? People should be allowed not just pistols and hunting riffles but AK47s with cop-killer bullets? The NRA is so worried about any kind of restriction on their second amendment rights, that they believe those rights completely trump the rights of others to be safe.

The political economy of the United States threatens to turn Baltimore into a Third World country, but its loyal citizens keep plugging away. Disinvestment in our cities is a tragedy, but just as your forebears moved out to the burbs, your progeny will make the trek back. Just a petrochemical fact.

What a shock. Frank trots in and starts muttering about conservative whites. I really think you have a problem with race Frank.

Did you poll the former residents of Baltimore regarding their party affiliation? I really want to laugh, but it's sad that people can be as ignorant as you are.

@ChrisW You are a really foppish fellow. You ought to just plain listen without mouthing off. You need to demonstrate some knowledge of the process of segregated housing in Baltimore, which dates back to actual ordinances adopted in 1915, and the white flight that ensued when that scheme began to collapse post-WWII and accelerated post-Brown. Until then you are just another slice of white-bred denier of the irrational racial divide in Baltimore and America.

The Moving to Opportunity program only covered 285 families. I don't think that would even come close to the biggest.

I love it. White panic. It sounds like an alt rock band.

Forget the actual riots that occurred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_riot_of_1968.

The sad fact is that the cities were vibrant and fairly safe up until that point. So who's fault is it that everyone moved out?

Ok, so now I'm a "white-bred denier". My how we love our labels. It is 2012 not 1968.

I'm not ignorant of the history of segregation, but its history. Those sins were those of of our father and grandfathers. Last I checked the president was black, or at least half black. If that's not an indication that this country, for the most part, has moved on I don't know what is.

The most powerful man in America is a black man and yet you still cling to the victim hood of segregation that has not existed in over 40 years.

DC did not have the same rust belt economy.

Jobs jobs jobs.

How many Feds are in Baltimore?

How many decaying steel mills are in DC? Its just not that simple Frank.

"turned itself around in 10 years" your joking right Frank? I mean you really can't be serious about that comment can you? I'm wondering if you've ever been to southeast?

DC is certainly better than Baltimore, but why is that? I can sum it up in three words, jobs jobs jobs. DC has a ton of well paying federal jobs. Add to that the fact tat there are no massive decaying steel mills, factories etc.

Simply put, Baltimore is a rust belt state. It was built by an industry that has since been nearly completely outsourced by leaders in both parties.

But it does get closer every day.

Well said Jonathan.

They can sit in their prefab house erected in a former cow pasture watching their one tree grow. Sounds like fun.....

Hope the gas, your job and our money hold up. I am rooting for you, buddy. You landed where you have a chance of surviving.

Get drunk and disorderly in Fells Point with your county buddies and they will PC some knots on your head.

And what they fail to understand is that while they may have a cop 5 minutes away, people in rural areas that must live with their gun laws are not as fortunate.

Frank, can you show anything anywhere that a city "subsidizes" a rural area?
You have never been known to understand just what a "subsidy" is.
Please give us your definition of "subsidy".

Stand on the 41st Street Bridge, Sanchez, any morning from 6:30-9:00 and see if anything pops into your head. Police protection, street maintenance, fire protection, water, trash removal, cultural attractions occur to me and the griping and haggling over user fees has been immense.

I mean, city folks try to be hospitable, which is not to say that every Who in Whoville is on board.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/nra-goes-on-lockdown-85204.html?hp=t1_3

Yup, all you liberals who profess to being open minded are demonstrating that you are hateful, evil single minded individuals who are intolerant of people with whom you disagree with.

People were posting death threats and evil diatribes.

Liberals are despicable people who profess acceptance and understanding, but wish violence on others.

Wow, AG - you got all of that from a 3-line comment and a link?

Not much to say but that you revealed YOURSELF - Think about that one for a while.

Oh, wait - no thinking there, just reacting...

I have been watching this story. As an Endowment member of the NRA, this is important to me.

Just google, and you will see plenty of stories about the violence and death threats againstthe NRA that led to these actions.

As an endowment member you should attend one of Alan Gura's seminar and you will realize just how anti 2nd Amendment the NRA really is.

The NRA doesn't represent gun owners. They only care about themselves.

It always made me laugh that the NRA has a "No Firearms Allowed" policy in all their facilities except their gun range.

I believe the NRA isn't anti 2nd amendment. They are ultra cautious, and that makes them look anti 2nd. I also believe they are somewhat self serving. But that is why I also support GOA and SAF.

The NRA did everything they could to sabotage Gura's and the SAF's court cases. They had a law passed that pretty much put the GOA out of business.

While I frequently disagreed with his politics, I salute every Medal of Honor winner.

As a former Military Officer, I have only know one MOH soldier. I was humbled in his presence, and I am sure I would have felt the same way for Sen Inouye.

God bless you Senator Inouye.

Oh Geez! More NRA BS. The old Doctors kill more people canard ....... is worn out around here.

Steve the Denier of All Truth STILL refuses to see.

"Preventable Medical Errors – The Sixth Biggest Killer in America
The Institute of Medicine’s (IOM) seminal study of preventable medical errors estimated as many as 98,000 people die every year at a cost of $29 billion.1 If the Centers for Disease Control were to include preventable medical errors as a category, these conclusions would make it the sixth leading cause of death in America. 2"
http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/justice/hs.xsl/8677.htm

"In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA"
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php

"DOCTORS make mistakes. They may be mistakes of technique, judgment, ignorance or even, sometimes, recklessness. Regardless of the cause, each time a mistake happens, a patient may suffer. We fail to uphold our profession’s basic oath: “First, do no harm.” According to a 1999 report by the Institute of Medicine, as many as 98,000 Americans were dying every year because of medical mistakes."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/opinion/more-treatment-more-mistakes.html?_r=0

"Medical Error
As many as 98,000 patients die each year in the United States due to medical errors.
Preventable medical errors cost the nation $17 billion to $29 billion in health care, lost income, and other expenses."
http://www.thehastingscenter.org/publications/briefingbook/detail.aspx?id=2264

Stevie, PLEASE stop ! You look foolish.

Jesus, Shaka. Please tell me you're not serious. Acting as if doctors are killing people on purpose. What a moron.

Okay, so you want mass murderers to get a signature on a release form like we have for doctors? "I, ______________ Acknowledge that ___________ has come to my elementary school to kill me. By signing this I release ____________ from any and all results of complications from the execution of said act.

Let's see how that flies.

Sanchez - hold on. If we go after the medical community in the same way as suggested by the gun control folks we would be banning scalpels, forceps, and potentially medicines - not doctors.

Would you prefer that we ban gun owners instead of guns?

Just asking.

jaggoff, you are the moron since you are illiterate. If you can't argue the points so make your own up!.

See the headlines? "Preventable Medical Errors " "Deaths from Medical Errors" "DOCTORS make mistakes"

All those big words went right over your pinhead didn't they jagoff?

Shaka, would you be against stronger enforcement of background checks for private sales and gun shows?

Your erudition had been duly noted and I will continue to think about your reading Madison.

I wonder what Hamilton would have thought about gun control. BTW.

Personally, I would not want the 2nd Amendment repealed without being replaced. IMHO that particular 18th Century document needs updating for the 21st Century.

Perhaps. There is a process for that. A constitutional convention. The founders wanted to protect the people's rights from the from the "tyranny of the majority".

You cant just throw out what you don't like on a party line vote.

LOL...you sure want a lot, "Stank". Too bad you're just an insignificant, frail Cheetos-scarfing teenager living in Mom's basement.

Hey Frank, If you want to live in Russia, just move there. Don't F***** the country up for the rest of us.

Actually, the NRA still has a lot of power. It is the largest membership paying organization in the world.

The problem is that the Republicans put forward such a crummy presidential candidate that the NRA that the NRA could not overcome it.

But if the Democrats put forward another assault weapons bill, you will see them fail.

In a way, I would love to see another AWB. That will be the end of Harry Reid and the end of Democratic control of the Senate.

I believe the AWB under Bill Clinton elected GWB and the Republican control of the House and Senate.

It is a shame the Republicans abandoned their core beliefs and screwed the pooch. Otherwise the country would be in much better shape now!

Once someone uses the term "Faux News", I know they are just name calling, and need to be ignored

Pretty much half the political posters on this forum need ignoring for similar offenses, honestly.

Such is our society today.

OMG Steve...you are a laugh a minute....faux news....gun control!!! May you never, ever encounter a point in your life when your very existence and that of love ones is threatened and you realize there is no recourse but accept your fate only then wishing you had a weapon to defend yourself and your love ones and realizing that hand-to-hand combat simply won't fly. Can it happen...sadly it can.

Sorry I don't have those fantasies.

Faux News isn't funny. It's sad. It intentionally takes advantage of it's target market (old bitter white people). It causes them to think and act irrationally, like this Old Coot.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/20/mosque-arsonist-tells-court-i-only-know-what-i-hear-on-fox-news/

Nothing on but repeats. ROFLMAO, huh?

What's with the "old bitter white people" crap, Steve? Do you have a color-vooka problema, honey child???

Well said Lorna...sure are a lot of posts to this topic...must be very important..

Once again...responsible gun owners keep their guns in a safe...let me see a bad guy carry a 300 pound safe out of the house!!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

there are others, but these are the ones immediately at my disposal!!

How about a law that forces gun owners to be "responsible?"

Require that they have enough gun safes to hold all of their guns? Require that the guns be stored in said safes at all time they are not being used?

That would be a step in the right direction - but good luck passing, not to mention enforcing, that.

I think Psychologists call it the "rescue fantasy". Because that's pretty much what it is.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/armed-civilians-do-not-stop-mass-shootings

Steve, I enjoy action movies, but I know they are fiction. I think some folks believe they ARE Bruce Willis, and think they would act accordingly. They don't consider that in real life there is only one "take."

Frank, I have read many articles, whether on the web or in hard print. As I stated, those 2 were the ones I had at hand. Go looking for those types of stories if you wish...I'm stating my opinions, if you want do do the research to prove me correct, be my guest. I won't do the research for you!!!

Oh...and an off-duty cop is simply a citizen with a lawful carry permit!!!

"off-duty cop is simply a citizen with a lawful carry permit"

I'd be curious to know if the minimum experience requirements are the same for cops and private citizens in terms of training.

Corbin...most all gun owners that I know go to the range as much as if not more than police as recreation. Frankly, many cops only go when required by their department to remain "qualified", general citizens go to the range as passtime and may even be better shots that some police

Be careful Eastsider....I thought that too, but the statistics don't bare that out...not increasing (according to FBI stats)...they have been virtually flat, but we are hearing more about them!!!

The number of homes on the planet increases every year too..

Geez - As if on cue:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/harford/publications/the-record/ph-re-hdg-home-invasion-1221-20121220,0,5428320.story

Don't know the details, but I guess this would argue for a gun safe at every entrance...

Pretty good blogoke there 1ke. I especially like breathy. Is it "breethee" or is it "breathee"?

Here are the clearest eyes I have ever seen in my life:

http://www.examiner.com/article/sandy-hook-father-remembers-daughter-emily-offers-gunman-s-family-sympathy?cid=rss

Courtesy of Emilie Parker, regretfully now deceased.

I think that political gain and loss has nearly completely obscured the need for facts, data and rational planning. Hardcore policy wonks are not sold very easily. They play the doubting game well. All of us would do well to encourage statistical analysis in public discourse, not throttle it, in spite of the current spiral into innumeracy. Leaving bad outcomes to ride on the bus of the status quo right past the stop is too fatalistic for a healthy democracy--not that we necessarily have one of those.

Overuse of ellipses create the breath-ee effect. Crisp, clear and moving forward. Comma, conjunction, period.

Your imagination Lorna that a person would be able to defend a person walking in with an AR15 is fairy tale stuff. You excel at fairy tales. You have absolutely no idea what it would be like. Countless studies show you would freeze, then be dead. You believe in your magical thinking. You are a complete idiot.

Frank...again had Mom been using her common sense...after petitioning to have Son institutionalized....the guns would have been locked up and the Son would not have the combination (actions of a responsible gun owner)...One may even argue that Mom could have been charged (had she not been murdered with her own gun, that should have been locked down) with second or third degree murder of the children for her reckless storage of the guns, while there was a reasonable expectation that the Son may use them while mentally disturbed!!!

FIFA....why is the thought of a person with adequate training and the wherewithal to do whats necessary to protect themselves so alien to you.....I'm sure that Lorna and many others like her are certainly not idiots!!!! We choose not to be victims and to not be taken care of by others....

Doug Wood - we all know that common sense would prevent virtually all of this type of crime, but we as a society cannot just write off 28 deaths due to a lack of common sense. We need a law or laws to insure that people act as if they have common sense - if they don't have it, the law defines what common sense is.

We do not place severe limits on other rights based on what people might do. For example. We have te right to free speech, but we also hold people accountable for the things that they say or write through our laws regarding libel and slander. You can yell fire in a crowded theatre, but you may be prosecuted for causing a panic.

What we do not do is pass laws forbidding speaking in crowded theaters.

It should be no different with our right to bear arms. Just because a crazy person kills people with a gun is no reason to ban the gun. The frustrating part is that in this case, and others like it, we are sometimes left with no one to hold responsible.

Hal....we do have laws....problem is that the two people that could be prosecuted are both dead!!!

Doug, what you describe is a police officer, not a civilian. Shootings like these are high stress real life situations, not a video game.

FIFA....WTF are you talking about...police officers are simply citizens trained....most never ever see, much less are ever involved in a situation such as this. As a matter of fact I know many officers and most of them have never had to fire their weapon, much less draw it. Of course it's not a video game...but why can't you fathom that folks could handle themselves under stress. Could it be that you are one that falls into the victim catagory. You live your life that way...an intruder enters your house...you call for the police....now you wait for them to get there as you hide and hope that you aren't hurt by the bad guys. Me, I'll be giving the intruder a verbal warning...if they continue in....a warning shot.....if they persist....I will shoot them center mass....then I'll explain how they ended up dead in my house to the police when they get there 15 mins. later!!!

Doug your ignorance is astounding.

FIFA...if that is ignorance...I am blissfuly happy!!!

She is dead.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sandy-hook-father-remembers-daughter-emily-offers-gunman-s-family-sympathy?cid=rss

Frank, I don't know the answer to that question...go ahead and do the research to enlighten us. The one thing that I can guarantee you is that I or my family won't ever be included in those statistics!!!

Sometimes it just takes a while for issues to work themselves out. http://bit.ly/Ud4Bfw

Good post..

You have to like the low-affect delivery. Is this about magazine capacities or Asperger's syndrome?

Who and in what way honey child? Surely you are not talking about the video referred to by the "town crier"...

Just sometimes it pays to read the article published yesterday, but the date of the event was:

"The media focuses on the bad things but not the protective qualities from having protection. This story is from mid-2010"

These kinds of for-want-of-a-horse-the-kingdom-was-lost stories are the most laughable kind of argument for public policy.

It is kind of like when somebody has something bad happen to her and some brilliant individual offers up: "If you hadn't been there, it wouldn't have happened."

None of this is significant-- not gun control legislation, not the lack of mental health treatment for average Americans, not the difficulties of coping with a developmentally delayed child, not arcane definitions of assault weapons, not home invasions, not people who threw their money away on useless hardware-- until a disaster happens and 27 people die. To me it sounds like a month and a half's worth of body count in Baltimore.

I am glad the topic is on the radar, but amazed that the conversation surrounding it is so young, so naive.

Perhaps...but without it was a sure thing!

Incorrect. The deputy disengaged because police procedure at that time was to wait for SWAT units.

I'm betting you probably would not want to be my target darling. Soiling panties...ahhh typical crude FIFA...You really can't help your little "potty" mouth can you, honey child!!! Always ready to insult hiding behind the F-I-F-A ..wonder what the Fs stand for?

Pantie Girl, you are all talk. Put your Depends on it would be the only protection you had. Gosh, Lorna the Gunslinger just scare the poop out of everyone.

Texas is where Hasan killed many at Fort Hood and Arizona is where Loughner shot many. Both are known for liberal weapons and concealed carry laws. In neither case was the gunman stopped by any citizens.

Balt Observer,,, Hasan killed many at Fort Hood citizens are not allowed with weapons on base, Hasan was known to have mental issues and was moved to Fort Hood by letting political correctness in the military. Lorna D. Rudnikas this is the comments I refer to on that clip.also December 7, 1941 all weapons were locked up and ammo also many lives lost. Citizens the mid 20th century guns were everywhere Just like Israel today. Remove personal protection rights what do we have left? The understaffed police force with time and distance issues or Gangs who don't give a dam on the law and have guns. Basically it come down to Educated Vs Intelligence, common sense, and reasoning. "FIFA UMD in case you are interested with honors". Educated Vs. Intelligence, Common sense, and Reasoning. I take ICR

ATC, it appears you are 0 for 4 on that count.

Let's start with your Depends.

Lorna, I'm not going to insult you again or respond to you after this post until at least the New Year (I'm leaving on vacation!). However much you love the video of the child and dog, I can never forget the eyes of this child who died as a result of the rounds fired from the semi-automatic assault weapon at Sandy Hook. Please look in her eyes, and explain to your god why she is no longer here. Please don't tell him it was because the principal was not armed. Please don't tell him that the USA second amendment allows people to buy these weapons. Please do tell him it was because the shooter had an assault weapon and shot her at least 3 times with a high velocity military round moving at 3,000 feet per second. Please tell him that was why she died. As it is the truth.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sandy-hook-father-remembers-daughter-emily-offers-gunman-s-family-sympathy?cid=rss

This was Emilie. She is no longer with us. Congratulations on your second amendment rights.

PS Lorna - What a beautiful child Emilie was. The dog is not in her league.

Love ur style! well said, and very respectfull.!

Not so sure about that 1ke darling. But you definitely have a problem with "exaggeration" ...

I said I wouldn't insult Lorna until the New Year, but the moron aka ATC is fair game. UMD in case you are interested with honors.

That said, imbecile ATC, what grade school did you graduate from? Based on your irrational postings, was it the school with the white jackets? You write like you brain is running on empty. Your incoherent thoughts are almost like you are married to ...... Oops, I promised.

OMG...1ke, you are losing it!

incremental steps 1ke that u understand the process, little at a time because it nature ....human nature of history we might not agree on a a few things but you last part of you statement is TRUE ! I was informed about this 60 yrs ago and i have a hard time believing that its happening in our faces . That way I posted the brain wash KGB vid. Its not the KGB tho you have to search yourself to truly believe what the hell is going on! think about this wild idea? when it does or if it does happen who will be the peoples last standing? ...the gangs that don't have legal guns think about Australia, and USA are made up of misfits other countries Branded Misfits who is crazy? JC and his band was a bunch of misfits and they live in our hearts everyday